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Hear the thought of the Village Church by listening to one of these typical sermons…
Behold, in Heaven, an Open Door
(September 12, 2004)
(March 2, 2008)
(August 6, 2006)
Perhaps you have seen the recent New York Times editorial by Katherine Stewart, which represented the Village Church, being one of those churches in New York who rent a school for Sunday worship, as a pariah of the West Village neighborhood (“Separation of Church and School,” June 11, 2011). Her piece was a commentary on the recent 2nd court ruling (“Court Lets City Restrict Church Use of Schools”, June 2, 2011). While we welcome Ms. Stewart’s recent arrival to New York City, her anxiety over this country’s long-standing legal precedent, allowing churches, along with any other partisan groups here to rent week-end space from public schools, is uninformed.
People tend to fear what they do not understand. And clearly some have a hard time understanding Christians, as evidenced by the misrepresentations in Stewart’s piece. The Village Church has been a presence in Greenwich Village for over sixteen years, serving the needs of the neighborhood in large and small ways. If Stewart knew anything about the church, she did not show it by her characterization.
Stewart asserts that churches are “attracted to New York by the combination of cheap space and the opportunity to save the city from its parent godlessness…” The idea that any group is attracted to New York seeking “cheap space” is, to put it in the kindest possible way, laughable. (Do you know anyone coming to New York for “cheap space”?) Instead of pouring money into a building, our church rents space in the local school (PS3), leaving more resources for our community programs. The cost along with the Security Guard we provide, is not that much less for other space in the Village. We should pay — and now it looks like ‘will pay’ — a comparable amount for using an off-off-Broadway theater or rehearsal space on those Sunday hours.
But to what does Stewart object? Does she object to how over a five year period (2004-2008), our church, though quite small, gave away over $120,000, a tenth of our income, to various charities? Many of these charities were local, such as the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center, Greenwich Village Block Association, International Arts Movement and St. Vincent’s Hospital Chelsea-Village Shut In Program. Or maybe she objects to our mercy network, which has fed homeless, helped service Washington Square Park, and connected needy villagers to financial, counseling and educational services for a decade and a half. I wonder how many of the hundreds of people who will tell you that the Village Church improved their lives would be persuaded by Stewart’s cost argument.
Stewart writes that the Village Church is one of those groups that “has little connection with the school community…” In fact, members of the Village Church have both attended PS3 and taught there. Her picture of us, along with other churches, as some kind of vulture swooping down to pick at innocent children “for religious purposes” is hard to fathom, unless it is a muddled reference to our monthly Parents Night Out program, open to caregivers and parents (who number among PS3 parents) of any creed, color, party or orientation. Participants are offered a night out while we provide free babysitting by trained church volunteers. This program, held at PS3, is non-religious. The children are led in a evening of artistic crafts and creative play, and delivered happily exhausted to the better-rested parents at the end of their date. The people of our church give up their Friday nights simply to serve the needs of parents, again for free, because Jesus Christ has given freely to us. Maybe that is what is so hard to understand, but that is what Christians are about.
Our ministry, G.A.M.E. (Gender Affirming Ministry Endeavor), seems to particularly bother Stewart, who crafts the careful phrasing of how we are “…associated with the movement to ‘cure’ gay men…” Anyone actually involved in helping those struggling with their sexual identities would find the word “cure” offensive, including us–we have certainly never used the word.
Again, G.A.M.E. began as a response to the needs of our community. We have found that there are some same-sex attracted individuals who do not wish to define themselves as gay and no amount of cultural affirmation has changed their minds. We do not seek them out. They come to us. And they do so because few will support them in their own decisions of self-determination. But we walk with them. Stewart’s suggestion that such a group does not represent the neighborhood just proves how little she knows of the Village’s diversity.
The doors at the school are open on Sunday mornings for all villagers. Those who avail themselves of the experience of a visit encounter artistic offertories and sermons for those who wish to think about issues in depth. Maybe they agree. Maybe they disagree. But no one yet has suggested, as Stewart does from her perch on the Upper East Side, that our voice should not be a part of Greenwich Village’s conversation. And no one seriously thinks that PS3 endorses our views by renting to us. The United States Supreme Court feels similarly and has said so.
We live here. This is my neighborhood. It is a strange phenomenon that Stewart, who blows in recently from California, can present us, genuine New Yorkers, as some kind of alien race. If she is unable to countenance worldviews in her own neighborhood that she does not like, even views that oh-my-gosh include hell, I guess that it is good that she moved here, so she can spend a little more time learning from New Yorkers how to practice actual diversity in peace. That could help her over her “separation anxiety.”
Rev. Sam A. Andreades
Pastor, the Village Church
June 15, 2011
The New York Times declined to publish this response.
The Village Church is affiliated with Exodus International. That organization’s mission is antithetical to the values of PS3.
Kevin, I respectfully disagree.
PS3 serves lunches to school children. If Village Church held a support group for Overeaters, is Village Church’s mission then, antithetical to the values of PS3?
Your conclusion could only be correct if the mission of PS3 is to encourage its elementary school children to engage in homoerotic play (or have sex with same sexed children). And I’m guessing most parents of PS3 would not want the school encouraging that kind of recreation.
I worry about the denigration here of non-native New Yorkers, and I say that as a second-generation Manhattanite. Is it true that each and every member of The Village Church is a “genuine New Yorker”? In the eyes of those of us who were born here, that is not a moniker taken on lightly.
have also been outside PS 3 on Sunday mornings, and seen people getting out of cars and going inside–so is it true to imply that all members of The Village Church are local?
On the question of non-native New Yorkers: the VC’s Website says that at least one of the church’s leaders lives in New Jersey.
Note that the Times piece talked about churches being drawn to NYC schools because fees for their use are lower than market rental rates, not because New York generally offers “cheap space.”
To Willie W:
Rather than considering your lurid analogy, let me explain why I think the VC’s mission is incompatible with PS3′s ethos.
PS3 families include Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, religiously observant Jews, agnostics, atheists, and so on. Many of the children have gay or lesbian parents. As a community, the school is fine with all of this.
VC, on the other hand, sees the world as including Christians (of a specific sort) and non-believers, with the Christians obligated to convert the others. Despite the Website’s general lack of candor, VC also believes that acting on same-sex desire is sinful and that some sort of conversion is in order for gays and lesbians. Never mind the ample evidence–whether from scientific studies or the history of Exodus International itself–of the intractability of sexual orientation.
So, an unremarkable aspect of family life at PS3 is the target of VC’s highest profile mission.
Hi Kevin and Mary, thanks for the discussion.
Lest my New Jersey address become a liability here: my wife and I are exceptions to the question of native New Yorkers (though, for a time, my wife worked at a Manhattan veterinary clinic and I currently work on Wall Street). The rest of our church lives in one of the five boroughs, and over half are in Manhattan. Of the New Yorkers, some of our congregation are born-and-raised, others are life-long transplants, and many have come to NYC for school or work aspirations.
With my family as an exception, the other people arriving in cars are coming from elsewhere in the city as the MTA runs less frequently (or less reliably) on weekends and parking is easier on Sunday mornings.
Kevin,
As a non-member of VC (I’ve never attend once), what obligates VC to match PS3 in all respects–teaching that ‘changes channels’ each week to match every view of PS3 families? If a family at PS3 were against ‘handouts’ to the poor, should VC (in the name of representing all views, cease from social service ministry?
You seem to assume that VC has obvious obligations to represent views, tastes, ‘equally’ and be for the things you favor, and against the things you don’t (I assume ‘narrow-mindedness’ and like). Why should your views trump all other views? What gives you a privileged perch, from which, to pass judgement down upon VC? You present yourself to be tolerant, open-minded and inclusive. But your quickness to cast VC out of town (for running afoul of a value of yours) calls into question whether these values are really covert intolerance (i.e. “agree with me, or get out of town). How are you different from what you despise?
Respectfully yours,
Willie
Ken – The VC Pastor is the one who implied that not being from NYC is a liability.
Willie – I suggested in my first comment that Exodus International’s mission was incompatible with the values of the PS3 community, and explained why in a second comment. That’s all. The suppositions in your last comment are yours and yours alone.
Kevin- mine were not suppositions, but merely deductions. I’m giving you a courtesy not extended to VC; I’m not pretending to divine your motives.
When you issue judgments against VC, labeling their presence as “incompatible” with PS3, you are assuming that your interpretations of compatibility (i.e. your perspective) trumps, or overrules, the perspective of VC and it’s members. Had you assumed that your views were merely equal, you’d opt for a less judgmental term like, “different” or if you were really being inclusive and open-minded you’d choose to celebrate the views of VC as adding to the spectrum of PS3′s “diversity” in the community. But you didn’t. You labeled VC as “incompatible.”
I’m assuming you’re not the sheriff of Greenwich Village or PS3, or the elected arbiter of Greenwich Village morality. Therefore, I’m simply asking the obvious question, “why do you get to decide who is ‘out of bounds’ and ‘incompatible’?”
If I were to make a ‘supposition’ I’d simply tell you which bias you espouse. But I’m taking a more charitable road. I’m asking you to simply explain why you can assume the mantle of moral authority?” Obviously (in your mind) VC has broken an obvious moral law of some kind. Mind sharing which law VC has broken?
Willie W.
Lastly, Kevin, you seem to think it obvious that VC shouldn’t be on the campus of PS3 because of a value mismatch (your term is ‘incompatibility’) between the church and the school.
So I’m assuming you’d consistently apply this value-matching principle in other places as well. For example, if a GLAAD or GLISTEN chapter wanted to meet in Memphis TN in a school that was largely against gay-values, you’d also support the school opposing the gay-group, right? It’s a mismatch again, and the school’s values are out-of-sync with gay group. Therefore, out goes the group.
Right?
eğitim araçları- I am merely asking questions, not making suppositions.
Imagine I confidently declare, “no one who wears bow-ties ought to vote in national elections.” Someone then asks me “why?” And I explain, “they are incompatible with the majority of Americans who no longer wear bow ties.”
Then suppose my friend asks me, “so would you also oppose such a person voting in state elections?” Imagine I replied, “the suppositions in your comment are your own.” A smart friend would ask, “where are suppositions being made?”
Willie W.
You have every right to exercise your freedom of religion wherever you choose. However, you do not have the right to have my tax dollars subsidize it.
Your church is already exempt from any and all taxation at a state and federal level. It’s hardly onerous to require that you pay to rent out a space for worship just like any other private group that wishes to gather in New York City.
Cordell:
You may choose to see the situation as one in which your tax dollars are subsidizing the church, as (I doubt) the church would have chosen the venue unless the rental rate was competitive. I think a more meaningful way to understand this situation is that it is actually the church’s rent that subsidizes (subsidized) your tax dollars, supplementing the school’s budget, a budget that you would have otherwise been on the hook for. By the sounds of it, the church was apparently providing other material services to the school by virtue of its presence in their building. Maybe the school found another tenant willing to pay the same price, or maybe you are now on the hook for the deficit…or maybe the kids and their teachers will cover the difference by making due with less resources.
I am sensitive to how my tax dollars are spent, and I can relate to your concern, but in this case it seems to me that the school (as a landlord) lost a high-value tenant.
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Hi Cordell, I appreciate Carson’s argument here.
Also, it might be helpful to know that the Village Church is paying about $130 more per month than we were paying for the auditorium at the school.
So, renting the school was less expensive, but I’d hesitate to call it a “below market” rate.